Andrew Monkhouse
Hanoi, Vietnam
Sunday, January 27, 2013 18:08 |
Adding ‘missing’ names to the war memorial: To do or to not do!
Hi, as some of you will be aware, August of next year represents the 100th anniversary of the outbreak of the Great War. There are 40 names listed on the Sutton war memorial of men who were either BORN in Sutton, or who were RESIDING in Sutton at the time of the war.
About 4 years ago I started compiling profiles on these 40 men listed on the memorial. (These profiles can be viewed in the Local Information section of this website)
It was at this point that I started stumbling across the odd ‘Fallen’ soldier who had either been born in Sutton, or who was residing in Sutton at the time of the war who had not been recognized on the war memorial. Since then no less than 13 ‘Fallen’ soldiers have been identified as originating from Sutton, or residing in Sutton at the time of the war, who were not remembered on the village war memorial.
In addition, the names of Albert Akrigg and Elsie McColgan were later added to St Thomas’ Church Roll of Honour listing the ‘Fallen’. So that’s an additional 15 names that could, perhaps should, have been added to the memorial, but weren’t.
I looked into this further and discovered that this was a common occurrence with countless other Great War memorials across the land. Men from local communities who died in the war, yet they were not commemorated on the local memorial. I even came across a few cases of men who had been added to a memorial who were in fact still alive!
I guess the passage of time means that we will probably never know why a man was not included on one of the local memorials. However, many war memorials have since had names added, often at the request of families and at other times as the result of tenacious local historians. For example, Settle added a name to their war memorial about 3 years ago and Barnoldswick are currently in the process of adding additional names to their war memorial. The extensive Roll of Honour panels in Liverpool Town Hall have had many additions in the last few years, at the request of families. So this has been a familiar pattern all over the country.
For 2 or 3 years now I have been mulling over the idea of recognizing these local ‘Fallen’ heroes on a matching Additional Name Plaque in bronze to be added to the plinth of the cross in Sutton park. This is assuming that there is general support for such an idea across the Sutton community and that permission is granted by the local Parish Council. 2014 is looming so it would be great if this could be done in time for the centenary.
A military historian friend of mine has kindly offered to foot the entire bill and pay for all costs associated with the production of a pattern and bronze casting for the plaque and also for having it affixed to the memorial. Again this is assuming the village Parish Council and the local community are in favour of such a move.
If the green light is given to go ahead, I will compile individual profiles on all of the missing names and have them included on the webpage “The Fallen of Sutton-in-Craven” on this website. People can then read up on these additional servicemen from Sutton who gave their lives during the Great War, but who were not officially recognised on the village war memorial.
If the green light is NOT given for the Additional Name Plaque, then I will still compile individual profiles on all of the missing names and have them included on the webpage “The Fallen of Sutton-in-Craven” on this website!
I realise that there are going to be those in favour of this proposal as well as those against. I must admit that I am generally not in favour of re-writing history, but in this instance I believe that these men deserve to be recognised equally as much as the 40 men who have already been immortalised and commemorated on the village war memorial.
So I’m interested to know what the general consensus is on this idea. I would welcome all opinions on this proposal, for or against. It may happen or it may not happen depending upon the responses that are received. Please try and be polite :-)
Clerk, do you foresee any obvious objections from a Parish Council stand point to the addition of an extra name plaque being added to the war memorial – free of charge that is?
This has been a lengthy post, thanks for taking the time to read it. |
Paul Wilkinson
webmaster
Sunday, January 27, 2013 20:15 |
Hi Andrew - I don't see it as rewriting history, more a case of making corrections. In my opinion, all those who made the ultimate sacrifice during (or as a result of) the Great War should be remembered - and the right place for this is on the Memorial.
|
Ian Park
Monday, January 28, 2013 09:34 |
I think it's a good idea what andrew is asking, as i am one of those who as a relative that is named on the memorial in the park( ie: albert tune who was killed at theipval in belguim in 1916) there should be some sort of plaque to those that are not on the memorial and gave their lives for king and country.
The parish council in their intimate wisdom should agree whole heartedly about this proposal suggested by a former villager and good friend on the other sde of the world.
Ian Park |
Clerk
Monday, January 28, 2013 18:10 |
Andrew,
I personally cannot see a problem and will gladly put your request forward but I will need a written letter addressed to the Parish Council.
The next Parish Council meeting is on the 4th February.
If you would like to E-mail me a letter to clerk@suttonincravenpc.co.uk I will let you
know the councils thoughts/decision. |
Jenny Newbury
Sutton in Craven
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 16:32 |
I feel that this would be a fitting tribute to those men who lost their lives in the Great War. Like others, I do not think that this is re-writing history but an addition to the public display of that history now that further information has been found. |
Margarete Parker
Steeton
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 20:10 |
I think it would be a fitting tribute to add the names of the fallen, as a relative of Albert Akrigg who died of war wounds after the war this would mean a lot to his surviving nieces and would be a permanent record for future generations. |
Andrew Monkhouse
Hanoi, Vietnam
Thursday, January 31, 2013 04:03 |
Thanks everybody for your positive comments so far. This is not a fait accompli, so if there are any objections this is the time to voice your concerns.
One slight snag that I and the donor of the plaque had overlooked and have just realised is that the new plaque may have to take the form of three plaques!
The fourth face of the memorial where the new plaque was intended to be installed is already occupied. The solution is to attach three narrow plaques on the tier below the main column where the original plaques are affixed with 5 names on each plaque.
The new bronze plaques together with the font and letter sizes will be cast to match the originals as closely as possible.
Again all of the above is dependent upon approval from the village Parish Council and a general thumbs-up from the local community.
p.s. Ian Park my old buddy, how are ya? I didn't know you are a relative of Albert Tune who is listed on the memorial. We're still missing a photo of him. Would you happen to have one or know someone who does? Thanks Ian |
Joan M. Tindale
Cowling
Saturday, February 2, 2013 11:36 |
Researched all our Cowling men a few years ago, had them checked by others,and it is still an ongoing project - last year we discovered that one man (not already on memorials) did not actually die - he lived on until 1934! Also some of our's would have been on memorials in the village which are no longer here - eg.in the old cricket pavilion, chapels etc. Also a few are commemorated in other villages, depending on the wishes of remaining relatives. Some are only on family graves, some are on military graves etc. etc. We have 3 remaining memorials but not all the same names are on these. Complicated?
Now - will have to reconsider the above suggestion up here (haha) - but it is so long ago we couldn't get the approval of remaining relatives? Does that really matter now? |
Louise Quinton
Leeds
Monday, February 4, 2013 20:06 |
As a WW1 enthusiast who believes all who served and died as a result of the Great War should be commemorated, I think this is an excellent idea. The way Andrew describes it, it will be tastefully done and in keeping with the existing memorial. |
Andrew Monkhouse
Hanoi, Vietnam
Tuesday, February 12, 2013 14:13 |
Hi, just to keep people up to speed.
Sutton Parish Council held a meeting on the 4th February and discussed, amongst other things, the proposal to add new plaques (with additional names) to the WW1 War Memorial in Sutton Park, at or before the Centenary of the Great War in August 2014.
The response from the Parish Council Clerk following the meeting was “Your request to add 15 names to the War Memorial of men who were born or living in Sutton at the time of the Great War 1914-18 has been granted by the Parish Council….I understand that there will be 3 plaques with 5 names on each. These will be bronze castings and will have the same font and letter sizes as the ones which are already sited and will be fitted under the main plaque on the tier below…..”
So the Parish Council has given the green light for the project to go ahead. The donor of the plaques and I will maintain an open dialogue with the Parish Council throughout this whole process. This dialogue will include the precise positions where the new plaques will be affixed, the day in which the fittings of the plaques will be done, the proposed date/day of the unveiling of the new plaques, etc.
In the mean time this thread remains open with the option for people to make comment. Shortly I will be listing the names and details of the circa 15 ‘Fallen’ Suttoners who were not commemorated/remembered on the original war memorial. |
Alan Pickles
Bingley
Tuesday, February 12, 2013 19:46 |
Andrew,
You are to be congratulated on the effort that you have put into the placing of forgotten names on plaques for the war memorial. Whoever is funding the excercise is also to commended. I am not aware of any of my forebears who are likely to be included and I do not think that there will be any, but on behalf of ALL those who have no one left to do so, Thank You both on their behalf. |
Robin Longbottom
Oakworth
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 06:44 |
The Parish Council should liaise with the War Memorials Trust, who can be found on
http://www.warmemorials.org/faqs/ and also with the Local Planning Authority as the memorial falls within the Conservation Area. I also understand that there was a cut off date for the addition of the names of those who died of wounds or as a result of war service. I believe that they had to have died within twelve months of the official end on the war in 1919, the war memorials Trust will advise on this point. |
Andrew Monkhouse
Hanoi, Vietnam
Wednesday, February 13, 2013 11:47 |
Thanks Robin, I'll investigate this further and will report back shortly. |
Andrew Monkhouse
Hanoi, Vietnam
Thursday, February 14, 2013 04:28 |
Hi Robin, thanks again for your post. We definitely want to make sure we’re doing the right thing and not inadvertently breaching protocol.
I can report back that the Clerk of the Parish Council has contacted the War Memorials Trust and was advised that there is no cut-off date for the addition of names to be added to a war memorial. Rather it is down to sensible decision making.
Clerk also pointed out that the Parish Council owns & manages the park and in fact the deeds are in the Parish Councils name. So the PC run and maintain the park on behalf of the village.
With regards to the date of the official end of the Great War it was later than 1919. As I mentioned in an earlier thread, we know an armistice (ceasefire) came into effect at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918 when a truce was declared and fighting ceased. However a formal state of war with Germany persisted for another seven months, until the signing of the Treaty of Versailles on the 28th June 1919.
It was not until the 31st August 1921 however that the Great War was finally declared over for the following somewhat obscure reason. There was an Act of Parliament called the “Termination of the Present War (Definition) Act” of 1918. This Act stipulated that the war would end when there was an Order in Council indicating that the war was over, and that the war would end on the date of the Order. The Order was made on the 31st August 1921.
So this was the official date for the end of the Great War, PLUS the 31st August 1921 would also mark the end of official recognition for men and women as war dead by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission CWGC).
However, any cut-off date (if any) for inclusion onto local war memorials was determined ONLY by the organization commissioning the memorial. They were in no way bound by CWGC policy on the matter. Hence the inclusion of Albert Akrigg’s name onto the St Thomas’ Church Roll of Honour in 1928, this being a local Roll of Honour rather than an official CWGC document. |
