Sutton-in-Craven Village Website

Village Web Site Forum

From	Subject/message
Robin Longbottom Oakworth Wednesday, November 7, 2012 11:50	Sutton women in WW1 Britain's last woman to serve in WW1 died in February this year aged 110. She was Florence Green and served with the WRAF. Does anyone know anything about any Sutton women who played their part in WW1? My grandmother's cousin, Gretta Norton, who lived on Holme Bridge was in the nursing service, a VAD, but I have no details. My paternal grandmother's sister, Lena Baldwin, from Steeton joined the WAAC's. There were a surprising number of services - Queen Alexandra's Royal Army Nursing Corps, First Aid Nursing Yeomanry, Voluntary Aid Detachment, Women's Axiliary Army Corps, Women's Royal Air Force, Women's Royal Naval Service. I would be interested to know if anyone has any information.
Andrew Monkhouse Hanoi, Vietnam Wednesday, November 7, 2012 13:13	Hi Robin, the Roll of Honour (listing the 'Fallen') in St Thomas� Church, Sutton records an Elsie McColgan. I�ve tried to find out more about her in the past but have always drawn a blank. Her name does not appear on any of the local war memorials (Sutton, Kildwick, Steeton, Cowling) and her WW1 service file doesn�t appear to have survived � if indeed she served. But that�s a very good point about the women of Sutton and the part they played during the Great War. I�m currently liaising with the Northallerton County Records Office about the 241 men from Sutton who served, so I will follow up with an additional question about the women of Sutton who served during WW1 and will report back if anything comes to light.
Andrew Monkhouse Hanoi, Vietnam Thursday, November 8, 2012 09:58	I've again tried searching for the elusive Elsie McColgan. When I search ALL the records for the UK & Ireland which includes census & electoral rolls, Births/Marriages/Deaths, military, wills & probate, immigration & travel, Schools, Directories & Church Histories, Public member trees, Card Catalogues��.I come up with only one hit (her death notice!). She was born in 1896 and died in 1928 aged 32 years in the Registration district of Keighley. So clearly she was not a Great War casualty! A second �non-casualty� name appears on the Great War Roll of Honour (listing the 'Fallen') in St Thomas� Church, that of Albert Akrigg. A similar search reveals that Albert Akrigg of 21, King Edward St, Sutton-in-Craven �fell asleep� on Dec 10th 1925 aged 27 years and was interred at St Thomas� Church on Dec 14th. So again, not a Great War casualty. The only question therefore remaining is why were these 2 names added to the St Thomas� Church WW1 Roll of Honour (listing the Fallen) in the mid to late 1920s? Looking at the handwriting listing the 11 Fallen servicemen above these two names, it is clear that Elsie & Albert were added at a later date by somebody else, but why?
Paul Wilkinson webmaster Thursday, November 8, 2012 11:53
Andrew Monkhouse Hanoi, Vietnam Friday, November 9, 2012 11:09	OK, having finally located the service file of Elsie McColgan (thanks to a �Great War Forum� colleague) and downloaded it from the National Archives, I have been able to piece together the following profile from a variety of sources for Elsie and her family: 1911 UK census shows Elsie aged 15 and her brother Andrew aged 25 living with their widowed mother Alice Mary McColgan (nee Spice) aged 47 years at 78, Hope St, Grimsby, Lincolnshire. All three were born in Grimsby. Elsie & Andrew�s father, also called Andrew McColgan was born in 1850 in Gorbals, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland. He married Alice Mary Spice in 1880 and the following year in 1881 they were living in Grimsby, Lincolnshire. It can be deduced that Andrew died in 1910 aged 60 because his widow Alice Mary wrote on the 1911 census form that her marriage had lasted 30 years and that they�d had a total of 6 children, 3 of whom were now deceased (so one child was away on the night of the census, 2nd April 1911). In 1911 Andrew (junior) worked as a dock labourer whilst Elsie & her mother worked as ships braiders (fishing net makers). Andrew (junior) was born in the Jan/Feb/Mar quarter of 1886. He was married to Mary (maiden name unknown) shortly after the 1911 census in the Apr/May/June quarter of 1911 in the district of Grimsby. Andrew died aged 77 on the 6th March 1963 at Grimsby General Hospital. His home address at the time was 14, Fildes St, Grimsby and his 'effects' totaling 285 pounds and 15 shillings were left to his widow Mary McColgan Elsie McColgan was born in the Jul/Aug/Sep quarter of 1895. At the age of 23 she enlisted into the Admiralty on the 9th August 1918 enrolling into the Women's Royal Naval Service during the Great War. Her Rating was: Electrician and her Service number was: G4192. Elsie served for almost five months from 9th August 1918 through to 4th January 1919. Throughout this period she was stationed at Wallington which was the Auxiliary Patrol base 6 miles north west of Grimsby. Elsie�s Next of Kin was listed as her mother Alice Mary McColgan, now residing at 7, Harker St, Sutton Mill, Keighley. Elsie McColgan died in the Apr/May/Jun quarter of 1928 aged just 32 years in the Registration District of Keighley. Cause of death is unknown, but I would suggest that it was unlikely to have been the result of �delayed� war related injuries given that she was home-based at Wallington Auxilliary Patrol base near Grimsby throughout the 5 months of her Great War service. Elsie did not qualify for Great War medals as the conditions for the award of the British War Medal for the Women's Royal Naval Service was for �overseas service�. Elsie McColgan�s name was ultimately added to the St Thomas� Church WW1 Roll of Honour (listing the Great War �Fallen�) in or around 1928. The reason for this may never be known.
Robin Longbottom Oakworth Wednesday, November 14, 2012 07:26	Nice bit of research on Elsie McColgan. By pure chance I came upon her grave in St Thomas's Churchyard. It reads - In Memory of Elsie McColgan the beloved daughter of Alice Mary McColgan died 23 April 1928. Alice Mary is also buried with her. I also happened upon the grave of Albert Akrigg who is the other late arrival on the St Thomas's list of Fallen. He died December 15th 1925 and is buried with his parents Benjamin and Lizzie Akrigg. The Keighley News of 7th September 1918 reveals that the Akriggs lived in King Edward Street, Sutton and that Albert was a worsted drawing overlooker (presumably at Bairstow's mill). He joined up about September 1916 and was allocated to the Norfolk Regiment. He went out to France in October 1917 and then on to Italy, returning to France in April 1918. During the first week of September his parents received a letter from him written from Moor Park Hospital, Preston .. "informing them that he had been wounded by shrapnel in the elbow. The shrapnel made a pretty bad hole, and he had been weak, but he was now going on nicely. He went over the top, he said, on Wednesday morning, 'tons of Fritzs knocking about,' .... advanced 5 kilos. The Germans did not get their aim till about day break, when they started bombarding the Norfolks with heavies. He (Private Akrigg) was out trying to find water for the lads when he got hit about 100 yards behind the lines in a village between Albert and Arras." The article states that he was one of three sons who have served or are serving with the forces. It would be interesting to know if his death was as a consequence of his wound. Oh, if you're wondering what I am doing wandering around the graveyard, my aunt died recently and I called in to check on the new stone. Might also be something to do with retirement.
Andrew Monkhouse Hanoi, Vietnam Saturday, November 17, 2012 21:12	Great stuff Robin, good that you�ve been able to locate the graves stones of the 2 people in question and an interesting KN report on Albert Akrigg. Just to finish off the Elsie McColgan story, a copy of her Death Certificate has now been obtained by a Great War Forum friend of mine. Her cause of death was General Tuberculosis, so I think that probably rules out Great War related causality. Her mother Alice Mary was present at the time of death at 7, Harker St, Sutton Mill. Actually there is one more puzzle regarding the McColgan family in that I cannot locate them anywhere on the 1901 UK census data. Perhaps they were overseas?
Paul Wilkinson webmaster Sunday, December 2, 2012 08:32	I've received the following update from Margarete Parker Albert Akrigg is a relative and our son has visited Keighley Library and retrieved the attached death announcement from the Keighley News in 1925. As you will see he died from injuries sustained in the war. Although this was seven years later, it was known within the family that he suffered considerably during these years and this would be the reason his name was added on the Great War Roll of Honour (listing the 'Fallen') in St Thomas�s Church at a later date.
Andrew Monkhouse Hanoi, Vietnam Sunday, December 2, 2012 13:01	Hi Margarete, many thanks for posting the additional information on Albert Akrigg together with the Keighley News death announcement showing his photograph. Certainly very tragic that he eventually succumbed to injuries sustained during the war. Albert died too late to be remembered on the village war memorial unveiled in March 1921, but as you know his name was later added to local St Thomas� Church Roll of Honour listing the �Fallen� in 1928. There remains to this day a degree of controversy surrounding the OFFICIAL cut-off date for recognition of Great War �Fallen� casualties. As we know, an armistice (ceasefire) came into effect at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918 when a truce was declared and fighting ceased. However a formal state of war with Germany persisted for another seven months, until the signing of the Treaty of Versailles on the 28th June 1919. It was not until the 31st August 1921 however that the Great War was finally declared over and the reason for this is somewhat obscure. There was an Act of Parliament called the �Termination of the Present War (Definition) Act� of 1918. This Act stipulated that the war would end when there was an Order in Council indicating that the war was over, and that the war would end on the date of the Order. The Order was made on the 31st August 1921. This explains the official date for the end of the war, but does NOT explain why the War Office and the Commonwealth War Graves Commission decided that the 31st August 1921 would also mark the end of official recognition for men and women as war dead. Whilst an arbitrary �end date� was necessary for legal reasons, a man who died of his wounds is a casualty of the war, regardless of whether he died five days later, or five years later. In fact many of the men who later died had been receiving disability pensions and there were still many thousands of men being treated in Ministry of Pensions Hospitals both as in-patients and outpatients until the late 1930s. The War Office was fully aware of when these men died and the cause of death in order to stop their pensions. Having an 'end date' for official recognition of men and women as war dead may have been thought of as expedient at the time, but by setting the cut-off date so early the number of 'official' war dead is very much lower than the true figure. Unofficially of course, Albert Akrigg and many thousands like him fall into the category of �Fallen� Great War casualties. Hence the inclusion of Albert�s name onto the St Thomas� church Roll of Honour in 1928. This was a local roll of honour rather than an official document and the Vicar or whomever would have made the suggestion or deemed that Albert�s death was war related, officially or not. Any Great War related death is a tragedy no matter how long after the end of the war it occurred and Albert is no exception. In fact I suspect that nobody returned from those WW1 trenches unscathed mentally, emotionally, spiritually, many physically incapacitated. The scars from serving in the Great War would have been life-long for most, if not all of those who witnessed it.
Robin Longbottom Oakworth Sunday, December 2, 2012 17:02	Thank you very much, Margarete, for sending in the news clipping about Albert Akrigg. However, this raises another query, his medal card and the Keighley News report 1918 state that he was in the Norfolk Regt, but in the photgraph Albert is not wearing the Norfolk Regiment badge in his cap. The Norfolk Regt badge is the figure of Brtiannia encirled by a laurel wreath, the badge in the photograph, although very unclear, appears to be a Maltese cross, possibly that of the Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derby Regt). Both badges had a scroll underneath. It appears that he may originally have been allocated to another regiment and subsequently transferred into the Norfolks. Any suggestions, Andrew?
Andrew Monkhouse Hanoi, Vietnam Monday, December 3, 2012 09:00	Yes well spotted Robin. I did look at his regimental badge when the photo of Albert emerged and was going to check it. The cap badge is indeed a Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derby Regt) issue. Question is, why? Albert�s Medal Index Card shows he enlisted with the 1/Norfolk�s on 4th January 1917 and was discharged with the 3/Norfolk�s (a reserve battalion training unit that remained in UK throughout the war) on the 7th March 1919. No mention of him serving with the Notts & Derby�s. His Silver War (Wound) Badge record from the 11th June 1919 shows exactly the same information, service with the 1st and 3rd Norfolk�s with the same enlistment & discharge dates. Again no mention of serving with the Notts & Derby�s. There is a remote possibility that his medal roll may have more detail, but the medal rolls are not yet available on-line. A trip to the National Archives at Kew would be the only way to check at the moment. So in the absence of his service papers, presumably destroyed in the 1940 London Blitz, we don�t have much to go on. Is it possible the newspaper used the wrong photo? HIGHLY unlikely I would suggest (although stranger things have happened). I tried checking his 2 brothers to see if either of them had served with the Notts & Derby�s. Harry Akrigg served with the 2/2 W K Battalion, Royal Fusiliers and interestingly enough was discharged early in 1916. The other serving brother I could not trace. It would have to be either Horace who was a year younger than Albert and may have been too young to serve, or Albert�s older brother Robert who I think may have passed away before the 1911 UK census, but I can�t be 100% certain about that. So if we assume that the photo correctly portrays Albert Akrigg, what other explanation could there be? It is just possible that Albert served with a young soldier�s battalion of the Notts & Derby Regt in the UK and this is not listed on his MIC card, but was listed on his service documents (since destroyed). Then when he came of age in 1917 he was transferred to the regular 1st battalion of the Norfolk Regiment and served in France and Italy. In the absence of Albert�s service records, perhaps Margarete may have some more family information to help put the missing pieces together?
Margarete Parker Steeton Wednesday, December 5, 2012 19:21	Andrew and Robin I am sorry but I am unable to help you as to what regiment Albert Akrigg was in. I have been in touch with Albert's niece in New Zealand who is also contacting his other niece in this country. I doubt if they are able to help. The only remote chance is if there are any old photographs of him in his uniform. There are some old photographs for us to retrieve which we haven't looked at yet but if we find anything at all we will let you know. Thankyou for all the information you have managed to research on him so far.

Posting to the forum is de-activated due to lack of use.

You are welcome to browse through posts but cannot add comments or start new topics.