Andrew Monkhouse
Sunday, July 20, 2008 01:06 |
HELP NEEDED to research the 40 WW1 names listed on the Sutton war memorial
Ladies and Gentlemen, very shortly on 11th November 2008 it will be 90 years since the guns fell silent on the bloody battlefields of France & Flanders marking the end of WW1.
40 Sutton lads paid the ultimate sacrifice and are commemorated on the war memorial in the village park. Has anyone ever looked at the names on the Sutton memorial and wondered to themselves what that person looked like, how old they were, where did they live, where did they serve, when & where did they die, which Commonwealth cemetery are they remembered on, what was their medal entitlement, WHO WAS THAT PERSON ?
For a number of years I have had the idea of researching all 40 of the Sutton boys who died ‘The Fallen of Sutton-in-Craven’ and creating a profile of each soldier. I think it is somewhat timely to put that plan into action now during this commemorative 90th year anniversary of the Armistice.
My goal is to have all 40 profiles ready and available for viewing on the Sutton web-site by the end of the year under the heading Local Information and then the sub-heading The Fallen of Sutton-in-Craven. By clicking on any soldier’s name the individual profile will be available for viewing in PDF format.
Is anyone related to one of the 40 servicemen listed on the Sutton memorial ? Would you like an input into what is included in his profile ? Do you have photo’s, documents, poems, medals or any other relevant information that you think would look good highlighted in his description ? I am happy to work with you to get the best possible look for your relative’s profile.
I have already completed files for the first 2 names on the memorial - Stanley Archibald and Joesph Bancroft. Is anyone interested in previewing these now with a view to exchanging your thoughts and feedback with possible alterations or additional information that could be added ? I am more interested in getting the best look for each profile, rather than being single-minded in what I think looks the best
Information currently available for these 40 men is somewhat sparse and limited, but with the addition of photo’s, regimental information, census details, CWGC, CPGW, SDGW etc, a meaningful and interesting profile can be generated for each soldier.
If you feel you are able to assist in any way I can be contacted initially via the webmaster Paul. We can then liaise by email or telephone and exchange thoughts and ideas.
Come on folks, we owe it to these 40 unsung heroes to highlight their cause and eternal memory for current and future generations to come. |
Josie Walsh
Sunday, July 20, 2008 17:42 |
Hi Andrew, I would be more than pleased to help in any way I can with the task you have ahead of you, although I no longer live in Sutton, and have no family connections there, I do hold a lot of indexes that might be useful and am more than willing to check anything for you. I can visit the local libraries in Skipton and Keighley for information that I may not have. I have recently helped a young man at South Craven school who had to do a project and chose Cedric Fawcett Horsfall whose name appears on the list for Sutton, and have got quite a lot of information for him already.
My email is josie@cravenindexes.co.uk |
Andrew Monkhouse
Sunday, July 20, 2008 22:44 |
Hello Josie, thank you so much for your offer of help, I have sent you an email in response. |
Nancy Wadsworth
Wednesday, July 23, 2008 18:39 |
Hi Andrew. I would be interested in helping you with regard to my grandad Frederick Simpson. I have a few photos of him which I would be happy to show you and a limited amount of information about him. The webmaster has my email address and phone number and it is ok for you to ask him for them to contact me. |
Andrew Monkhouse
Wednesday, July 23, 2008 22:07 |
Hi Nancy, thank you also for your offer of help, I have sent you an email in response. |
Natalie T
Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:06 |
Andrew, I am a relative of Edgar Pullan who is listed on the memorial. I have some information on him including a newspaper article regarding his death. I would be happy to let you know everything i know about him as well as copies of articles/photos that i have. Natalie |
Andrew Monkhouse
Thursday, July 24, 2008 21:31 |
Excellent news Natalie, sounds like you have some interesting info' on Pte Pullan. I have sent you an email in response. |
Michael Northrop
Tuesday, July 29, 2008 08:46 |
Andrew,
Will be happy to offer what help I can in your project and also to accept your invitation to preview your file on Joseph Bancroft, who I am pretty sure is 'one of mine'. Feel free to use my e-mail address if you so wish.
Michael |
Andrew Monkhouse
Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:56 |
Hi Michael, thanks for your offer of help. Joseph Bancroft's file is winging it's way to you as I type, probably arrive before I finish this sentence ! I've completed almost a quarter of the 40 files if anyone else would like to preview one of them with a view to further suggestions / additional information. I have brought forward the completion date for all 40 files to 11th November to coincide with the 90th anniversary of the Armistice. |
MrM
Friday, August 1, 2008 10:25 |
Hi Andrew.
I am new resident to Sutton, although a local lad. I would be more than happy to help. I am a historian and have long had an ambition to be a part of such a project. It'd also be a nice way to meet some fellow-Suttoners! Cheers.
MrM. |
Andrew Monkhouse
Friday, August 1, 2008 21:49 |
G'day MrM, thank you for your offer of help. I've sent a separate email to you in response |
Andrew Monkhouse
Sunday, August 3, 2008 14:27 |
Hi folks, I have a special request if I may.
I’ve now competed Edgar Green’s profile, except for one rather major inclusion. He was the only soldier on the Sutton war memorial to be awarded an additional medal for gallantry – the Distinguished Conduct Medal, but I’m having difficulty tracing specific details about the award
Normally it is mentioned on the recipients Medal Index Card, but in this case it isn’t. The other place I have searched is the London Gazette supplements for WW1 where 99% of all awards for gallantry were listed, except for a very small number of foreign awards. I have spent several hours looking for the Gazette entry and citation for Edgar Green’s DCM but without success. Normally I can find somebody’s citation in the Gazette within a minute, using the right search parameters.
The only other place I can think of that should have the answer is the Prince of Wales Own Regiment of Yorkshire Museum at 3A Tower Street, York which houses all the West Yorkshire Regimental information and military memorabilia. They will have a definitive list of all DCM winners for the West Yorkshire Regiment during WW1. But I can’t seem to contact them either. The number I have from their internet site is 01904 662 790 and I’ve tried calling every day for the past 7 days, the phone rings but is never picked up.
I was therefore wondering whether somebody would be kind enough to give this number a call from the UK, maybe from your work phone then it doesn’t cost you anything !
If the call is answered, it’s just a case of asking if you can make an inquiry about a WW1 DCM recipient, namely Edgar Green of the West Yorkshire Regiment, regimental number 1980 plus a later number 305361. Ideally I would like to know the date of the award, the date of the London Gazette entry and the specific wording of the citation.
Incidentally, I am aware that his DCM is mentioned on the park memorial itself, also in the book “Craven’s Part in the Great War” and also on the “Commonwealth War Graves Commission” web-site, but this doesn’t give me what I’m after. It’s the printed Gazette entry of the actual citation + date of award that I want to be able to scan into his file in order to complete his profile.
Thank you in advance Suttoners, I hope somebody can help. |
heather
Sutton
Sunday, August 3, 2008 15:07 |
Hi Andrew
Have you tried the web site for Craven War Dead, an artical there say's "We have got to know this morning (Dec. 9th) that all three of us have won the D.C.M. There were our platoon sergeant, a Rifleman, and myself" . my son used this site to reseach Edgar as part of a trip ti belgium and the Tyne Cot cemetry. is this the info you want?
Edgars relatives still live in Sutton. |
Andrew Monkhouse
Sunday, August 3, 2008 22:59 |
Yes Heather, any thing like this is great. Did your son happen to take a photo of Edgar's Commonwealth war grave at Tyne Cot cemetery? Did he manage to find anything else on Edgar, or talk to Edgar's relatives ?
If you are agreeable I'm happy to email you the file I have completed on him for your perusal to see if there is any additional information from your son's research that can be added to Edgar's profile, referenced to your son of course.
Does the quote from the Craven War Dead actually pin-point that it is Edgar who is being referred to ? I would still like to see the London Gazette entry for Edgar Green's Distinguished Conduct Medal, because every DCM for WW1 (25,000 in total) came with a specific citation and they were all Gazetted. |
Ady
Monday, August 4, 2008 08:41 |
Hi Andrew
For Edgar Green try searching these parameters( i hate that LG Search engine!!)
1983 LCpl E Green
LG 22-1-16( A24-12)
ive just found his DCM card on ancestry if it was gazetted Jan 16 the action could have been Oct 1915 ish??
Maybe something in the Keighley library card index...
He was a TF soldier if it was 6th WYR theres a history of them readily available.
Great project..im doing 24 from my local church and its taking a wee while Armistice Day my target too..
Ady |
Ady
Monday, August 4, 2008 08:55 |
Andy
He was a Leeds Rifles JNCO/SNCO with 1/8th Batt WYR found him listed in Magnus West Riding TF in Great War.
Ady |
Andrew Monkhouse
Monday, August 4, 2008 10:26 |
Ady my Boy, why didn’t I just come to you in the first place!
Thanks to you I’ve now located Edgar Green’s London Gazette entry. Yes the L.G. search engine is the most temperamental on the entire World Wide Web. I was typing in his regimental number 1983 + Green and nothing, plus all sorts of other combinations.
What I was missing was a comma after his name! I needed to put 1983 Green,
Anyway, no need for anybody to call the museum in York now, thank you if anybody intended to.
For the record this is Edgar Green’s citation and it’s a cracker
“For conspicuous gallantry near Turco Farm on 6th November 1915. When four men had been buried through shell fire, Sergeant Pearson, Lance-Corporal Green and Private Benson successfully rescued all four, although they went in full view of the enemy’s fire trench and were being shelled by high velocity quick-firing gun”
Thanks again Ady, I’ll send you a separate email, I have some other questions about the project
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craig
crosshills/yorkshire veterans coin searchers
Saturday, August 30, 2008 15:49 |
hi andrew
long time no see i have just got back from holiday and noticed your bit on the forum about the fallen from sutton.And as i have always taken a great intrest in the 1st world war i just wanted to say well done to you for taking on this project and i look forward to the results.Even though i now live in crosshills(big move eh) if i can help in any way please feel free to get in touch.By the way the number you have for the prince of wales's own regiment of yorkshire museum appears to be wrong.The number i have is 01904 461018 this should get you through to a major sullivan who was my rsm when i was in berlin (and a frightening one too) hope this is some use to you.The only reletive i have on the war memorial died in the second world war he was my grandads (george howard) brother terance howard.Anyway i will finish now but if i can be of any help just contact me craig
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Andrew Monkhouse
Sunday, August 31, 2008 03:49 |
Hey Craig, how’s it going? You never left your surname but you have to be Craig Upton?
I previously read your profile on ‘Friend’s Reunited’ and noted your career thus far, (quite the opposite of an office job) served 9 years in the army followed by 13 years as a firefighter, longer now no doubt. How’s the medal tally! You’ll have at least the 2002 Golden Jubilee Medal and probably be due for the Fire Brigade long service medal for 20 years exemplary service – assuming you’ve been a good lad!
Very commendable Craig, not quite sure how I ended up becoming a Registered General Nurse and Registered Psychiatric Nurse, no medals for nursing service!. At school nursing certainly wasn’t top of my list (or even bottom of my list) of things I wanted to do ‘when I grow up’. That said, if I could have my time again I’d stick to the same career.
Thanks for your offer of help with the Fallen Project. I think I’ve finally got the project under control having tweaked and adjusted the content and format for each file – thanks to some constructive feedback and invaluable help from various people.
The only thing I’m struggling with at the moment if the time-frame I set myself. I initially chose the end of the year to have everything completed, then optimistically revised that date to 11th November, but that objective is now looking somewhat tenuous with 19 more files out of the 40 still to be completed. I’ll also be out of action for half of October and beginning of November when I go overseas. End of the year is again the most likely completion date.
I’ve made a note of your ex-RSM Major Sullivan in case I need to ask him anything, probably give him a big miss from the sound of it. If I need to be frightened into asking a Regimental Sergeant Major anything I’ll simply ask the wife!
Good to hear from you again Craig, it’s a rare occurrence to see the name of somebody I went to school with on the forum. Not sure where everyone else is hiding, I don’t remember them all being this shy!
I’ll make an announcement on the forum when the Fallen Project is finally finished.
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craig upton
crosshills/yorkshire veterans coin searchers
Sunday, August 31, 2008 10:02 |
hi andrew
Yes i forgot to put my surname silly me but as you can see i have amended it.well you obviously have a intrest in medals as you named them correctly however i do have the gsm northen ireland also.And in answer to your question about the fire brigade long service medal i will be receiving that soon as i have been a good boy (or maybe they never caught me) i will let you be the judge of that.
glad to hear your getting plenty of help as it can be a time consuming passion researching all the information you are after.As i found out trying to research some of my family past.Well it sounds like you have a job you enjoy and that counts for a lot and just like you i would not change a thing i am sure your job is as rewarding as mine but you have the sun as a bonus.
And as for what i wanted to do when at school i think ever since i got a johnny seven machine gun(do you remember them) i wanted to be a soldier.And hey whats this about your wife being as scary as a rsm surely not.In answer to your question about where everyone is hiding i think they will be out there reading the forum as i did for a while before writing on it i think this is such a good site and i like to see all the old photos etc because i have a terrible memory so when i read some of the contributions and look at the photos i can think oh yes i remember now.Im just waiting for some of my old school photos to appear that will be fun.
Anyway i had better go now as i have work tonight nice to hear from you andrew and g#keep up the good work craig. |
Andrew Monkhouse
Monday, September 1, 2008 08:58 |
Yup, I thought you must be due for your Fire Brigade “Long Service & Never Been Caught” medal! What about the Falklands Campaign Craig, you must have been in the services when Maggie (quite rightly) spat the dummy with General Galtieri
I have a couple of South Atlantic medal pairs in my collection, one to the army R.E.M.E. together with a Northern Ireland GSM and another Naval one together with a long gong
Yeah you’re right Craig, my lovely wife isn’t too scary, except if I’ve done something wrong because I get ‘the stare’ which could drop a tiger from 50 yards. Gees, if my little boulder bottom knew what I was saying about her it’d be a frying pan / rolling pin job around each ear. Wouldn’t have it any other way though would we!
You must have gone to the Church school hey, together with Chris French, Mick Tennant, Ray Fielding etc. There’s definitely a drought on Church school class photo’s in the gallery for some reason.
Keep in touch, Andrew
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Paul Wilkinson
webmaster
Monday, September 1, 2008 19:46 |
FAO Craig Upton. Craig, I'm really sorry but when I just approved your last post I also took the opportunity to delete a duplicate post in another thread. Unfortunately I also took out your post. Would you mind reposting it? I promise to take extra care with my operands. The message started...
"Your memory is spot on i did go to school with all those you mention if you can think of any more..."
Paul
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craig upton
crosshills/yorkshire veterans coin searchers
Monday, September 1, 2008 21:08 |
Your memory is spot on andrew i did go to school with all those you mention if you remember anyone else let me know he he only joking although my memory of school is not to good(me and school never gelled).
yes i was in the army when maggie spat her dummy out as you say we where put on standby.But could not go because of the role we were on at the time(we could only be deployed to certain areas) so 3 para who were just down the road from us in tidworth were sent instead.
good to see you have a keen intrest in collecting medals i have just started to collect a few myself at the moment mostly copies but a few genuine ones too.My big intrest though is anything to do with the first world war.I have managed to get across to france on a couple of occasions once with my dad who had both arms in plaster at the time(accident at work) and after ten days around the meaux area of france managed to persuade my wife adele and young daughter carly that peronne would be nice to visit(good base for the battlefields) and they fell for it er i mean they agreed.
Anyway i could rabbit on for ages but will cease for now i am happy for the webmaster to pass my e mail on to you (try not to delete this one paul he he)
take care
craig |
