Sutton-in-Craven Village Website

Village Web Site Forum

From	Subject/message
Robin Bather Mexico Monday, June 20, 2005 01:10	Low Fold, Sutton in Keighley--1881 Hello My great great grand parents, Joseph and Elizabeth Bather & family--worsted spinners, were living at the above address in 1881. Can anybody tell me just where this address is/was? At long distance it is all a bit confusing for me, Sutton, Sutton in Craven, Sutton in Keighley....are they the same place? And as a non Yorkshire man, can anyone enlighten me by letting me know just what a "fold" is. I would love to see an online map of the area, it seems to have a fascinating history. Poor old Joe died in the Union Workhouse, Clayton, North Bierley, Bradford & Yorks. in 1901. With best regards from Mexico
Barbara Chapman Monday, June 20, 2005 18:23	Hello Robin, I have just found your message on the Sutton-in-Craven Web Site. I do a bit of Family History Research myself and have the whole of the 1881 Census, so I have taken the liberty of looking up your ancestor. Joseph Bather was a Widower aged 54 living with his children, Nathanael 19, Margaret Ann 16 and Elizabeth 12, I am sure you must know all this. Looking on Neighbours of this family I found a few doors away Thomas Bather aged 25 Born at Liverpool with his wife Margaret 24 from Wolverhampton with children Elizabeth 2, and John Wm. 6 months. There were about 23 occupied houses in Low Fold among them was the Beerhouse Gardeners Arms and an empty Blacksmiths shop. In the area was Prospect House, occupied by 2 families, one of which was William Hartley the owner of the local mill. Pinfolds or village pounds were built to hold straying cattle, the owner had to pay a sum of money to reclaim them. There was a Pinfold higher up the village from Low Fold. There was a farm called Low Fold, so presumably this was a 'Fold' lower down the village. Our local village historian has written several books about Sutton-in-Craven and there are photographs of The Gardeners Arms and Cottages and also a view of Low Fold Farm House. You have obviously found this Web Site and I take it that you have looked at the Aerial photographs. I have looked for the Low Fold area and unfortunately it would appear to be just off several of the photos.Looking at the 2nd Photo of the Hall Estate the Low Fold area is just off the Bottom Right Hand Corner and on 3rd photo of Croft Hill, Low Fold is just off the Left Hand Side. I am sure there must be other people in Sutton who could give you more information and perhaps the Webmaster of this site could give you more. Our local Historian's family has lived in the Sutton area for generations. I have lived here for 43 years and my husband was born here. With regard to a map we have an Ordnance Survey Map of about 1950 showing Low Fold. I will try and scan part of the map and if you don't come up with anything better, I could perhaps E-mail it to you. I hope the above information will be useful. Barbara Chapman.
Paul Wilkinson webmaster Monday, June 20, 2005 19:37	Hi Robin and Barbara This is just a quick reply until I get more time. I've loaded part of a map of Sutton from around 1850, you should be able to link to it below... sutton1850 If the link doesn't work, try copying this to your browser's address box... www.suttonincraven.org.uk/pictures/sutton1850.gif Low Fold is shown on the map. I'll try and find out some more information and perhaps take a photo of how the area looks these days, but it might be a few days before I can do that. Regards Paul Wilkinson
Robin Bather Mexico Tuesday, June 21, 2005 03:48	Barbara and Paul Thanks so very much for your prompt replies and interesting information about Low Fold. Yes Barbara I do have the info you kindly looked up. Thomas was Joseph's son and both escaped from the dreadfull Courts which were slum buildings in central Liverpool. "Come on Dad, let's go over the hills to Sutton. They tell me there are lots of jobs in the new mills". I like to think that they were happy in their new homes, and looking at the photos, Sutton seems to be an idylic place. (We'll gloss over the 1879 Sanitation Report!) I opened up and printed your super map of Sutton Paul. I bet old Joe had a few pints in The Black Bull. Does it still exist? Thank you both. Best regards Rob
Paul Wilkinson webmaster Tuesday, June 21, 2005 08:10	Hi Robin Yes, the Black Bull does indeed still exist. There's a photo taken in 1912 on the back page of the December 2004 newsletter showing the Black Bull in the background (you can download this on the Newsletter page). There's still an iron ring fixed to the wall where horses used to be tethered, and stone mounting steps that used to be outside the pub have been relocated to the park. The aerial photo titled "Sutton Park and St Thomas' Chruch" shows the Black Bull at the top left corner at the road junction - you might be able to mentally overlay the details with the old map. Regards Paul Wilkinson
Denis Pickles Norfolk Saturday, March 11, 2006 20:17	It's over fifty years since I left Sutton but I still think of the village as 'home'. The Black Bull was a place frequented by my father who was a keen member of the Pigeon Club [Homing Society] which met there weekly in a back room. On Friday evening the pigeons were ringed and transferred into the big baskets and off they went from Kildwick Station to places far afield - sometimes to France. The clocks were set and sealed ready for the race the following day. I'm afraid that I'm a little unsure of the exact process, but I know that on Saturday evening, after the pigeons had flown home, the chaps met again at the Bull to determine the winners and share the spoils. Some years after my father died, I visited Sutton and called in at the Bull for a jar at lunch [dinner] time. The place was deserted apart from one man who stood at the far end of the bar quaffing his pint. He looked over at me and said, 'Nathen'. I replied, 'Nathen then'. Silence for a minute. 'I should naw thee', he said. 'Should ta?' 'Aye. I have it! Pickles', he said. Another silence then, 'Walter were thi' father'. 'No. It was Charlie.' 'Oh', He looked a little crestfallen at being wrong, but he drained his pint and as he walked out, he slapped me on the shoulder and said, 'And Wil were thi grandfather'. I don't know who he was, but he'd obviously lived in the village for a long time because my grandfather died in 1937. He'd worked out my pedigree using no more than a couple of dozen words. Remarkable!
paulw webmaster Friday, July 13, 2007 12:24	Further to the Black Bull post about pubs in Sutton, the 1850 map linked to above shows the Kings Arms in a different place. Is this a mistake on the map? Paul
Robin Bather Mexico Saturday, September 8, 2007 23:41	I have been interested in genealogy for many years and hence my postings last year on this forum. My wife has been egging me on for some time to go alone to England (I live in Mexico) and spend a few weeks visiting the places where my forebears lived and loved, cried and danced, married and died. So I'm coming! Just like Dennis Pickles, I intend to down a jar in the Black Bull this coming November! Just like Joseph and Thomas did 126 years ago in the same pub.
Brenda Parsons Kent Monday, November 12, 2007 14:06	Paul Wilkinson's entry for 21 June 2005 mentions a Newsletter page, I've searched the site but can't find the page - can anyone direct me to it please? Many thanks Brenda
paulw webmaster Monday, November 12, 2007 15:35	Hi Brenda The link to the Newletters page is on the left hand side of the home page. You can get back to the home page by clicking the gold shields on the top banner of each page. Or anywhere on the top banner. Paul
Brenda Parsons Kent Tuesday, November 13, 2007 17:04	Thanks Paul, found it now. I only looked in the various headings from the forum page. Brenda

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